Hey David, so this exchange between us came across my feed. I’m glad it did. In retrospect, I want to state that I’m very happy with the way this all came together. President Biden stepping out of the candidacy, endorsing VP Harris- and the DNC acceptance. No chaos, it was a great roll out! I still have those feelings, but I can see the difference in momentum, excitement. Kamala was the only other option in my book, because she was “on the ticket” during the primaries. I see the poll numbers moving up, not much, but it is upward trajectory! Only 3-4 wks in! ( I don’t put a lot of stock in polls esp nowadays, but it is an indicator)
So, it’s good to have calm steadying voices from folks like you, and the space for voices like mine. Just wanted to acknowledge that.
I’m just reading this essay at the end of the day on July 22, maybe 36 hours after Biden’s shocking (to me) stepping aside from his candidacy and endorsement of his VP, followed by a remarkable flood of money and delegates around her, and I’m thinking “wait? When did Rothkopf write this?” You are an oracle. I’m so relieved. And we are going to finally elect our woman president! Thank you for this!
Hey David, I agreed with the majority of what you’ve written. Where I would disagree with you, is that “ this is exactly the discussion we should be having…” No it’s not, we, the voters have already had the “discussion “ and made our choice in the primaries. We are not unaware of the Presidents age, his gaffes, his slower gate, his stutter, yet, we voted for him.
The debate performance did not concern me, I’ll tell you why… I saw him all these years up to that point, I saw him the entire 2 weeks prior while in Europe. I saw him immediately after the debate, at the Waffle House, the next day in NC, and practically every day since, I say him just NATO, I saw him speak there… and I watched him handle a presser afterwards for an hour, answering in great detail foreign policy questions- which where all prefaced by the stupid question… “ …. The debate .?.?.?…”
Which he graciously answered.. if it had been me I would have said after the 1st one- “ Let’s get this out of the way, once and for all, so any of you who we’re gonna ask.. here’s my answer… I had a bad debate, no doubt, it’s fair to ask & question… I’ve answered. But there are many other points to make as well… then I’d start listing them off… and I’d ask . I appreciate your following up on the debate, everyday, for over a week now, with answers from us. Now I’m sure the American voters would love if you would spend as much time on my opponent, there is a cornucopia of concerning issues that need to be thoroughly investigated and reported to the people.
Then turn to further questions…
He has proven himself to us, the voters every day since getting into the office, and even more so since the debate, I believe, bcs he actually feels badly about it, and is bound and determined to show us that it was a fluke… and that’s what it was, a fluke.
I could not have stood on that stage, beside that - here we go - convicted criminal, self professed serial sexual predator ( grab’em by), adjudicated rapist, victim defamer, trump corp criminally responsible for business fraud and tax evasion, stealing from childrens cancer charity ( & his 3 kids did as well), philanderer- 3 wife’s, the current wife he cheated on while she was pregnant w/a playboy bunny, then when the baby was a newborn, he cheated on both the wife & the bunny w/an adult film star. Excepted millions of $$$$ from foreign countries/ leaders or their representatives via “business” - where’s the reporting on that, what did these countries/ppl get in return?
I could go on & on… But, the conversation by the democrats & leadership should be …But his debate…..?!?!? No - no, I don’t believe we are cult like, I believe in this instance with all the actions before and since the debate- he has more than answered that… period. Now, we have to show strength and solidarity.
Sorry, I got carried away… I’m not even going to reread this, ck grammar… so.
Thanks for sharing and for laying out your views in such detail. I totally understand your position and I know it is one that is held by many people. My own view is clear, I think...and where we differ I would say should soon be resolved once and for all and we can return our focus to the primary business at hand--beating Trump, supporting Dems up and down the ballot.
Thank you so much. Coming from an Italian-American family, we loudly ‘discussed’ everything so I guess I feel relieved at reading your perspective! I will not be frustrated or impatient. We are a BIG family loudly discussing a very serious and important issue….
I love this and really did laugh till there were tears in my eyes, but I've got to say something serious. My anger about what's happening doesn't come from any personal loyalty to President Biden. He was my 5th choice in 2020, and I'm thrilled that he and his administration have *way* exceeded my expectations. My anger is directed at the mainstream media (I'm a WaPo subscriber) that has been relentlessly using unnamed sources to bash and undermine the president since the disastrous debate, and at the mostly male, mostly white elected officials who are, or at least are said to be, urging the president to step down. Polls seem to be a major factor, but I'd bet they're also listening to their mostly undisclosed mega-donors. Because most of the small-donation legislators I admire aren't in on the feeding frenzy.
This looks to me like mostly white, mostly male, mostly very well heeled politicos throwing their weight around because they *can*. Because they're *entitled*. What's unusual this time is that it's out in public. I want them to lose (a) because Biden-Harris can win big in November if we stop squabbling and get to work, and (b) because they'll probably do the same damn thing if the primaries put a woman of color or anyone they consider too progressive at the head of the ticket. Campaign finance reform can't come fast enough.
I agree with you on most of this but I also think it's a pragmatic discussion and we needn't go beyond that. It's a 24/7 job and the debate showed the world that 82 is just too old. I live in NZ (from DC originally) and out here in the world people are terrified of another drumph admin too. Let him be the candidate that is too old etc. It is a shame that the voters didn't know earlier that there are health issues but we are where we are. BTW I think Biden has been the best president of my life- I'm 73.
But the debate showed me no such thing. It showed me that "Gish gallop" and jet lag are very real and that doing the debate at that time was a big mistake. If the Washington Post and the New York Times hadn't relentlessly pushed the dump-Biden agenda, I do believe we would have moved on, but unfortunately we haven't. Btw, what "health issues" are you referring to? There's so much erroneous info out there that I have no idea what people have heard.
Sorry, I should have said aging issues? I watched the whole debate and am just reflecting my own immediate reactions to it before the media jumped in. (What is Gish gallop?) And hadn't he been up in Camp David most of the preceding week? That would have sorted jet lag I should think- if he still had issues with that after 6-7 days then I think it solidifies my immediate reaction on the night.
Putin is a unitary executive and the abysmal performance of his armed forces illustrates the primary problem with the organizational model, paralysis. Even in the rare case that the executive articulates a clear, coherent policy, few in the chain of command risk interpretation. Getting into the details risks coming to the attention of the executive, which is something for aspiring courtiers. As a result, the vague policy is propagated down the line until it reaches the level of the tank commander who has to actually do something and bear the blame for the ad hoc, improvised and uncoordinated actions that must be taken. Credit for success flows upward and blame for failure is pushed downward.
If you respect healthy argument, as you say you do, why did you only like the comments to your blog that agreed with you? The healthy argument is about the timing of the Democratic Party fracturing more than who should be on the ticket. By not having this debate a year or two earlier, we are HELPING Trump.
I hope you are right David, but I am awfully angry at all of these Dem pols jumping ship and stabbing their own president in the back. It reminds me a lot of the assassination of Julius Caesar. And that it is the media and the donors driving this!
There is no plan in place if Joe gives in. Too many people are having West Wing fantasies. The bad blood if he is pushed out and Kamala pushed aside would tear the party apart maybe not irrevocably, but for a long time. I see it in my own county when our former state senator jumped ship to caucus with the GOP. Rebuilding is hard.
In addition to the hurdles a “new candidate” would face, legally, logistically, financially, and temporally, said candidate would be pilloried by a bloodthirsty, arrogant media drunk on its own power. The frenzy we are witnessing is more than just but her emails and the run up to the Iraq War on steroids; it’s that plus Whitewater and the Blue Dress on crack.
Media is driving this story and isn’t about to let it go even with a new candidate. And it is exactly as you wrote—it’s not about just one person; it’s about a whole team, which is why Biden/Harris has my support. You get rid of them—but hey let’s run on their record—for a bunch of inexperienced unknowns. One of my main reasons for supporting Biden was his deep knowledge and connections. And you see the results.
That so many seem willing to gleefully toss aside a good man who has been a terrific president and still has much to offer—most without a hint of remorse—speaks to our shallowness and it hurts me to say it, spinelessness. It feels less like a typical Dem bitch/argue session than a capitulation. I can only hope you are right.
I likewise have been thinking "Et tu, Adam?" "Et tu, Nancy?" "Et tu, Chuck?" What you said 150%. And I suspect Big Money, dark and otherwise, has its fist on the dagger.
Hey David, so this exchange between us came across my feed. I’m glad it did. In retrospect, I want to state that I’m very happy with the way this all came together. President Biden stepping out of the candidacy, endorsing VP Harris- and the DNC acceptance. No chaos, it was a great roll out! I still have those feelings, but I can see the difference in momentum, excitement. Kamala was the only other option in my book, because she was “on the ticket” during the primaries. I see the poll numbers moving up, not much, but it is upward trajectory! Only 3-4 wks in! ( I don’t put a lot of stock in polls esp nowadays, but it is an indicator)
So, it’s good to have calm steadying voices from folks like you, and the space for voices like mine. Just wanted to acknowledge that.
Thanks!
Moving forward!!💙 Not going back!
Yet the right are the ones advocating violence. https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/too-little-too-late-dont-believe
I’m just reading this essay at the end of the day on July 22, maybe 36 hours after Biden’s shocking (to me) stepping aside from his candidacy and endorsement of his VP, followed by a remarkable flood of money and delegates around her, and I’m thinking “wait? When did Rothkopf write this?” You are an oracle. I’m so relieved. And we are going to finally elect our woman president! Thank you for this!
Thank you.
Gooood one!
💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙
With all the information about Pass the Torch and the Broligarch revolt do you still think we Dems will argue it out?
Hey David, I agreed with the majority of what you’ve written. Where I would disagree with you, is that “ this is exactly the discussion we should be having…” No it’s not, we, the voters have already had the “discussion “ and made our choice in the primaries. We are not unaware of the Presidents age, his gaffes, his slower gate, his stutter, yet, we voted for him.
The debate performance did not concern me, I’ll tell you why… I saw him all these years up to that point, I saw him the entire 2 weeks prior while in Europe. I saw him immediately after the debate, at the Waffle House, the next day in NC, and practically every day since, I say him just NATO, I saw him speak there… and I watched him handle a presser afterwards for an hour, answering in great detail foreign policy questions- which where all prefaced by the stupid question… “ …. The debate .?.?.?…”
Which he graciously answered.. if it had been me I would have said after the 1st one- “ Let’s get this out of the way, once and for all, so any of you who we’re gonna ask.. here’s my answer… I had a bad debate, no doubt, it’s fair to ask & question… I’ve answered. But there are many other points to make as well… then I’d start listing them off… and I’d ask . I appreciate your following up on the debate, everyday, for over a week now, with answers from us. Now I’m sure the American voters would love if you would spend as much time on my opponent, there is a cornucopia of concerning issues that need to be thoroughly investigated and reported to the people.
Then turn to further questions…
He has proven himself to us, the voters every day since getting into the office, and even more so since the debate, I believe, bcs he actually feels badly about it, and is bound and determined to show us that it was a fluke… and that’s what it was, a fluke.
I could not have stood on that stage, beside that - here we go - convicted criminal, self professed serial sexual predator ( grab’em by), adjudicated rapist, victim defamer, trump corp criminally responsible for business fraud and tax evasion, stealing from childrens cancer charity ( & his 3 kids did as well), philanderer- 3 wife’s, the current wife he cheated on while she was pregnant w/a playboy bunny, then when the baby was a newborn, he cheated on both the wife & the bunny w/an adult film star. Excepted millions of $$$$ from foreign countries/ leaders or their representatives via “business” - where’s the reporting on that, what did these countries/ppl get in return?
I could go on & on… But, the conversation by the democrats & leadership should be …But his debate…..?!?!? No - no, I don’t believe we are cult like, I believe in this instance with all the actions before and since the debate- he has more than answered that… period. Now, we have to show strength and solidarity.
Sorry, I got carried away… I’m not even going to reread this, ck grammar… so.
Thanks for letting me share.
Thanks for sharing and for laying out your views in such detail. I totally understand your position and I know it is one that is held by many people. My own view is clear, I think...and where we differ I would say should soon be resolved once and for all and we can return our focus to the primary business at hand--beating Trump, supporting Dems up and down the ballot.
Thanks for this from me too- I calmed right down. Going outside to play now. Well done David.
Thank you so much. Coming from an Italian-American family, we loudly ‘discussed’ everything so I guess I feel relieved at reading your perspective! I will not be frustrated or impatient. We are a BIG family loudly discussing a very serious and important issue….
I love this and really did laugh till there were tears in my eyes, but I've got to say something serious. My anger about what's happening doesn't come from any personal loyalty to President Biden. He was my 5th choice in 2020, and I'm thrilled that he and his administration have *way* exceeded my expectations. My anger is directed at the mainstream media (I'm a WaPo subscriber) that has been relentlessly using unnamed sources to bash and undermine the president since the disastrous debate, and at the mostly male, mostly white elected officials who are, or at least are said to be, urging the president to step down. Polls seem to be a major factor, but I'd bet they're also listening to their mostly undisclosed mega-donors. Because most of the small-donation legislators I admire aren't in on the feeding frenzy.
This looks to me like mostly white, mostly male, mostly very well heeled politicos throwing their weight around because they *can*. Because they're *entitled*. What's unusual this time is that it's out in public. I want them to lose (a) because Biden-Harris can win big in November if we stop squabbling and get to work, and (b) because they'll probably do the same damn thing if the primaries put a woman of color or anyone they consider too progressive at the head of the ticket. Campaign finance reform can't come fast enough.
I agree with you on most of this but I also think it's a pragmatic discussion and we needn't go beyond that. It's a 24/7 job and the debate showed the world that 82 is just too old. I live in NZ (from DC originally) and out here in the world people are terrified of another drumph admin too. Let him be the candidate that is too old etc. It is a shame that the voters didn't know earlier that there are health issues but we are where we are. BTW I think Biden has been the best president of my life- I'm 73.
But the debate showed me no such thing. It showed me that "Gish gallop" and jet lag are very real and that doing the debate at that time was a big mistake. If the Washington Post and the New York Times hadn't relentlessly pushed the dump-Biden agenda, I do believe we would have moved on, but unfortunately we haven't. Btw, what "health issues" are you referring to? There's so much erroneous info out there that I have no idea what people have heard.
ps- I looked up Gish gallop. That's why they first learn to just pivot.
Sorry, I should have said aging issues? I watched the whole debate and am just reflecting my own immediate reactions to it before the media jumped in. (What is Gish gallop?) And hadn't he been up in Camp David most of the preceding week? That would have sorted jet lag I should think- if he still had issues with that after 6-7 days then I think it solidifies my immediate reaction on the night.
Putin is a unitary executive and the abysmal performance of his armed forces illustrates the primary problem with the organizational model, paralysis. Even in the rare case that the executive articulates a clear, coherent policy, few in the chain of command risk interpretation. Getting into the details risks coming to the attention of the executive, which is something for aspiring courtiers. As a result, the vague policy is propagated down the line until it reaches the level of the tank commander who has to actually do something and bear the blame for the ad hoc, improvised and uncoordinated actions that must be taken. Credit for success flows upward and blame for failure is pushed downward.
Not clear what you're getting at. Are you comparing Biden to Putin?
No, Trump to Putin because it’s a Project 2025 goal, not ours. Sorry to be obscure
Thanks for clarifying!
I laughed out loud. Really. I needed it. You are a mensch. ❤️✌🏻
OMG, thank you so much. So did I -- but I came over here and everyone was so *serious*. I was in hysterics all the way through.
Thank you.
If you respect healthy argument, as you say you do, why did you only like the comments to your blog that agreed with you? The healthy argument is about the timing of the Democratic Party fracturing more than who should be on the ticket. By not having this debate a year or two earlier, we are HELPING Trump.
I hope you are right David, but I am awfully angry at all of these Dem pols jumping ship and stabbing their own president in the back. It reminds me a lot of the assassination of Julius Caesar. And that it is the media and the donors driving this!
There is no plan in place if Joe gives in. Too many people are having West Wing fantasies. The bad blood if he is pushed out and Kamala pushed aside would tear the party apart maybe not irrevocably, but for a long time. I see it in my own county when our former state senator jumped ship to caucus with the GOP. Rebuilding is hard.
In addition to the hurdles a “new candidate” would face, legally, logistically, financially, and temporally, said candidate would be pilloried by a bloodthirsty, arrogant media drunk on its own power. The frenzy we are witnessing is more than just but her emails and the run up to the Iraq War on steroids; it’s that plus Whitewater and the Blue Dress on crack.
Media is driving this story and isn’t about to let it go even with a new candidate. And it is exactly as you wrote—it’s not about just one person; it’s about a whole team, which is why Biden/Harris has my support. You get rid of them—but hey let’s run on their record—for a bunch of inexperienced unknowns. One of my main reasons for supporting Biden was his deep knowledge and connections. And you see the results.
That so many seem willing to gleefully toss aside a good man who has been a terrific president and still has much to offer—most without a hint of remorse—speaks to our shallowness and it hurts me to say it, spinelessness. It feels less like a typical Dem bitch/argue session than a capitulation. I can only hope you are right.
I likewise have been thinking "Et tu, Adam?" "Et tu, Nancy?" "Et tu, Chuck?" What you said 150%. And I suspect Big Money, dark and otherwise, has its fist on the dagger.
david... thanks for this.
pls add "no worries" to your list of irritating phrases
No Worries is a NZ phrase the rest of you stole. Like pavlova.
TOUCHÉ!